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Starting a new reef tank....

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Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Fri May 15, 2009 3:32 am

Starting a new reef tank....

i know the basic beginning to starting a tank, like how to check my water. what to add and so forth. but! i'm unsure about filtration! should i simply use just a protein skimmer? and should i have my power heads or wave makers on at the start? and is lighting important while i simply set up the water conditions?


secondly fish and such.
after i have completed my water conditions and everything is running. when is it ok to add fish and what would be a good fish to add to the tank? im not too sure if i want to go with clowns. and should i get a few shrimp at the beginning? or just one? or none at all!


Thirdly corals/anemone's/invertebrates

when can i begin to put live corals, anemone's, and invertebrates in? i'd kinda like to have a small urchin in my tank aswell Smile
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Registration date : 2009-05-14

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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Fri May 15, 2009 1:35 pm

Is your new tank drilled? The ideal is to have a drilled tank and sump system with a refugium included in the sump. If the tank is not drilled avoid using a canister or aquaclear type filter. All they will do for you is increase nitrate problems. Instead rely on an over sized skimmer, frequent water changes, and an increased amount of liverock for denitrification and dissolved organics elimination. Keep sandbed depth to a minimum (< 1").

Run your powerheads right from the start. I would suggest 3 separate powerhead that push a total of between 1200 and 2000 gallons per hour total for your 65 gallon tank.

Don't worry about lighting during the startup/cycling period. There is no benefit in running them at this point as they will only encourage excess nuisance algae growth.

You can begin adding inverts and fish once ammonia and nitrite levels reach zero and the nitrate level reaches something less than 10 (understanding that the ideal nitrate level is 0). Keep in mind snails and inverts do not react very well to elevated nitrate levels or to even a trace level of ammonia or nitrite. A good rule of thumb is that when you think you are ready for your first tank additions wait one more week.

Corals can be added after the cycle is completed. I would suggest starting with the really easy stuff like zoanthids, polyps, leathers, and/or mushrooms. Nice colours are available and very little/no special care is required.

Anemones require more specialized care (high levels of light, regular feeding, and pristine water conditions that are very stable). I would not recommend adding an anemone to a new tank for at least 6 months after the cycle has completed.

HTH
Matt
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Fri May 15, 2009 6:12 pm

now is there any other way to have a sump on my tank? my tank is made from tempered glass... which as you know cannot be drilled but if i cant do that would a 100gallon skimmer do? and about 75 or 80 pounds of liverock?
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Fri May 15, 2009 7:47 pm

and as far as water goes i have a reverse osmosis system filter puishing 150 gallons per 24hrs
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Fri May 15, 2009 9:08 pm

LiveRock wrote:now is there any other way to have a sump on my tank? my tank is made from tempered glass... which as you know cannot be drilled but if i cant do that would a 100gallon skimmer do? and about 75 or 80 pounds of liverock?

You can use an external overflow box. The problem with them is that they sometimes loose siphon and can either create an tank overflow situation or cause your sump to run dry.
Regarding the skimmer I would go with an upscale model that boasts a 200 to 200+ capability. Skimmer companies are notorious for overstating skimmer capability.
With no sump and refugium I would target 120 to 150 lbs of liverock for your 65 (if you can make it fit).
The above are just my recommendations for your best chance at success. It is possible to be successful with a lesser skimmer and less rock if you stay right on top of your tank maintenance (including increased water change frequency) and keep your bio-load to the lower end of the scale.

Regarding the question in your next post, a 150 gal/day unit is more than adequate for your needs. Does the unit have DI canister as well? If not consider adding one to keep your tds right at zero.
I use a 75 gal/day unit that more than meets my needs for my 90 and my 30 gallon tanks.

HTH
Matt
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Sat May 16, 2009 4:21 pm

thanks a ton! i will see what i can do to add a sump to this system only problem being that the stand that i have seems to be fairly limited for space.. if i do go with an external overflow system, what size of tak would you suggest for me? and somehow i dont think i can fit 120 pounds of live rock lol and to be honest i dont want to spend 1000 bucks on rock then have it not fit lol
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Sat May 16, 2009 4:54 pm

LiveRock wrote:thanks a ton! i will see what i can do to add a sump to this system only problem being that the stand that i have seems to be fairly limited for space.. if i do go with an external overflow system, what size of tak would you suggest for me? and somehow i dont think i can fit 120 pounds of live rock lol and to be honest i dont want to spend 1000 bucks on rock then have it not fit lol

Given that you're just starting do the rock in stages (maybe 2 or 3 sepatate purchases). Check www.canreef.com Its a western based SW site with a classified section. Should be able to pick up liverock at about $4/lb if you're patient.
Get the largest sump you can fit under your tank. Larger water volume = greater stability.
I run a 40g sump for my 90g display. If I had the room the sump would be a 90 as well.

Matt
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Sun May 17, 2009 2:40 am

well after over going my system and talking over what my options were i decided to go with a sealed filter/pump/sump sorta system. basicly a large filter that acts like a sump tank just its sealed. its good for a 120gallon tank.. and aswell a hang off protein skimmer good to 120 gallons. 2 1200gph power heads! H2Ocean salt and purified water. also a 4 ft t5 bulb lighting system. (pics up in my build thread) Smile im just letting it all settle at the moment but it should be pretty nice once its complete!




on the otherhand i want cured live rock. it can save me quite a hassle.. and im pretty sure the 4$/pound stuff is gunna be pretty nasty stuff
avatar
LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Sun May 17, 2009 9:48 am

LiveRock wrote:on the otherhand i want cured live rock. it can save me quite a hassle.. and im pretty sure the 4$/pound stuff is gunna be pretty nasty stuff

Actually the "$4 stuff" from a private sale is likely to have come out of someones tank that is getting out of the hobby or down sizing and should be fully "cured".
This is not to say there aren't risks with buying pre-owned liverock. The previous owner may have treated his tank with copper rendering the liverock worthless or used nasty tap water with high phosphates in his tank that will create ongoing algae blooms that are nearly impossible to control. But you should be able to get a sense as to if the seller knows his stuff when you show up to look at the tank. My experience is that most private sellers are more honest and knowledgable about the things they sell than your LFS.
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by 2Frosty4u on Sun May 17, 2009 10:20 am

LiveRock wrote:(pics up in my build thread) Smile im just letting it all settle at the moment but it should be pretty nice once its complete!
Where's your build thread? I can't seem to find it for the pics you mentioned.
I must be going blind.
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2Frosty4u

Number of posts : 110
Location : Hamilton, Ont.
Tank Size- Gallons : 120g Reef, 35g fuge, 35g sump, 2X250W MH, 2X110W VHO actinic, Euroreef CS8-4 Skimmer, Blueline 100HD return pump, OM squirt 4 way closed loop.
75g Fowlr tied into reef system.
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Sun May 17, 2009 6:14 pm

under 65 gallon reef build
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by 2Frosty4u on Sun May 17, 2009 8:45 pm

I found it now, thanks,
I dont know how I missed it when I was looking for it earlier.
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2Frosty4u

Number of posts : 110
Location : Hamilton, Ont.
Tank Size- Gallons : 120g Reef, 35g fuge, 35g sump, 2X250W MH, 2X110W VHO actinic, Euroreef CS8-4 Skimmer, Blueline 100HD return pump, OM squirt 4 way closed loop.
75g Fowlr tied into reef system.
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Mon May 18, 2009 2:02 pm

seems like the sandstorm doent want to go away its been sitting there for 3 days now with no improvement.. am i doing something wrong? or should i shut of my canister filter maby?
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Mon May 18, 2009 2:44 pm

If I remember correctly it took about a week for my water to run clear and I had to stuff the baffles on my sump with poly.

Matt
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Cookieman888
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Number of posts : 175
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by 2Frosty4u on Mon May 18, 2009 7:50 pm

Is the canister filter empty and just being used to move water or do you have some type of filter media in it? I'm wondering because if there is, it may already be clogged with fine sand particles. When I set my tank up I had a filter sock on the discharge of the drain in the sump and it was clear in 2 days.
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2Frosty4u

Number of posts : 110
Location : Hamilton, Ont.
Tank Size- Gallons : 120g Reef, 35g fuge, 35g sump, 2X250W MH, 2X110W VHO actinic, Euroreef CS8-4 Skimmer, Blueline 100HD return pump, OM squirt 4 way closed loop.
75g Fowlr tied into reef system.
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Tue May 19, 2009 12:52 am

well it has media and some tech filter so maby i'll rinse that out and see but the glairty is getting better i can actually sorta see my back drop through a 14'' wide tank lol
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by PHYTO4LIFE on Thu May 21, 2009 2:34 pm

LiveRock wrote:thanks a ton! i will see what i can do to add a sump to this system only problem being that the stand that i have seems to be fairly limited for space.. if i do go with an external overflow system, what size of tak would you suggest for me? and somehow i dont think i can fit 120 pounds of live rock lol and to be honest i dont want to spend 1000 bucks on rock then have it not fit lol

1 lb per gallon is ok aswell if you do 10% weekly water change and keep a small fish load with lot's of scavenger's it will be a good place to start
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PHYTO4LIFE

Number of posts : 79
Tank Size- Gallons : 90G DT,30G sump
8-T5/4-20 000k/2-12 000K/2-blue&purple
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70lbs LR
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Thu May 21, 2009 7:59 pm

i went with 75 pounds of live tonga rock and the tank is doing great
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by PHYTO4LIFE on Sat May 23, 2009 10:48 pm

great did you add any hermit's? maybe in a few week's or so you can slowly add a little food to feed any thing that came on the live rock along with hermit's
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PHYTO4LIFE

Number of posts : 79
Tank Size- Gallons : 90G DT,30G sump
8-T5/4-20 000k/2-12 000K/2-blue&purple
2-lift sump's in-sump
2-power head's
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70lbs LR
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Sun May 24, 2009 2:39 am

well as far as it goes i have 2 shrooms some type of coral growing 2 aeneomes and like 2 star fish! but as far as crabs and such im picking up a few tomorrow
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Sun May 24, 2009 7:01 am

LiveRock wrote:well as far as it goes i have 2 shrooms some type of coral growing 2 aeneomes and like 2 star fish! but as far as crabs and such im picking up a few tomorrow

Hi Liverock. When you say "coral growing 2 anemones" did you buy these anemones or did they come as hitchhikers?
Do a google search on aptasia and majo anemones. If it is either one of these get rid of them as soon as possible as they multiply quickly and take over your tank.
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by LiveRock on Sun May 24, 2009 5:26 pm

uh oh.. it is an aiptasia so i just pull it out then? and yes they are hitchers
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LiveRock

Number of posts : 54
Location : Edmonton Alberta
Tank Size- Gallons : 65us gallon tank, yellow tang, regal blue tang, 2 darwin clowns, dwarf lionfish, foxface rabbitfish, neon goby, baby bamboo shark, arrow, decerator, horseshoe, hermit crabs (total of 15 crabs), hammer, tongue and glove polyp corals. 125g coralife skimmer, 4 65watt t5 bulbs (4ft) eheim canister filter
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by Cookieman888 on Sun May 24, 2009 8:21 pm

LiveRock wrote:uh oh.. it is an aiptasia so i just pull it out then? and yes they are hitchers

Laughing Good luck trying to pull it out! They are super fast slimey little buggers that disappear at the slightest touch!

There are a few ways to get rid of them
1. a product called aiptasia-X. This has always worked well for me. Make sure you apply liberally or the aiptasia will be back worse than ever.
2. peppermint shrimp have been known to eat aiptasia but in my opinion this option is hit and miss as not all peppermints will eat the aiptasia
3. apply kalk paste to the site of the aiptasia. Make sure the area is completely covered

HTH
Matt
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Cookieman888
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by PHYTO4LIFE on Sun May 24, 2009 9:19 pm

true get on them right away I fought them for year's if not they will spread like crazy when you start feeding and stocking your tank more

paring knife and carve them bugger's off also extreme drying the rock

syringe preferably something that will get right inside their mouth's pump them up with kalk as thick as toothpaste

rock's with lot's of hole's for them to hide imo are not the right rock's if your starting out but i'm sure you have ton's of them all i can say is examine and make you rock's easy to access to periodicaly get rid of these types of thing's

alway's imo examine everything about your rock thing's can be come a problem in no time after 7 year's I can say life is easy because of removel and prevention and practice every coral and rock that enter's your system need's to be looked at for irratater's/pest's there are a number of them
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PHYTO4LIFE

Number of posts : 79
Tank Size- Gallons : 90G DT,30G sump
8-T5/4-20 000k/2-12 000K/2-blue&purple
2-lift sump's in-sump
2-power head's
3 dsb
70lbs LR
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

Post by PHYTO4LIFE on Sun May 24, 2009 9:48 pm

I use to run a fluval 405 on my 75G and decided to take out all media and use it as extra flow and oxygen only one thing I found to be helpful is a phosban reactor filled with a cup of carbon this usualy took out almost all the detritus and left a crystal clean clear tank

sponge's media etc that are usualy found in a canister are sometime nitrate factories unless you plan on changing every 2 week's

phosban can become simular but you can clearly see when it's time to change every 2 week's to 1 month depending on how much detritus is in the clear reactor's carbon/sponge
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PHYTO4LIFE

Number of posts : 79
Tank Size- Gallons : 90G DT,30G sump
8-T5/4-20 000k/2-12 000K/2-blue&purple
2-lift sump's in-sump
2-power head's
3 dsb
70lbs LR
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Re: Starting a new reef tank....

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